Category: Geeks r Us
Hi everyone,
I'm currently on the hunt for a new laptop. I'm thinking either Acer or Dell (since I've heard good things about Acer, and have really liked my dell), however I'm concernned about Windows 7 vs 8. I've heard quite frequently that Windows 8 has a lot more problems, particularly with accessibility than does 7. I'm currently still using Windows xp with JAWS 13, so regardless, there's going to be a learning curve involved. I'm getting JAWS 14 soon, and the latest version of Magic, so software-wise I'll be more or less up-to-date. I use my computer for writing, internet, some medium-end gaming, and audio editing. Would someone be willing to converse about the pros and conns of these windows versions? I just red Domestic Goddess's big long thread about laptops, which was actually quite helpful, but about Windows 7 and 8 I'm still unclear. Thanks everyone.
Good luck in your search. I'm absolutely loving my new Windows 8 machine. The computer I ended up getting is an Acer M5 something or other. It rocks. Good luck in your search.
Thank you. I just red the in-depth windows 8 review on this site, and I have to say, without actually using it myself, the whole thing sounds very overwhelming.
well realize that either way you go, you'll have support until 2020 with windows 7.
also realize that if you want to bring back the desktop s and start menu like your used to seeing under Xp, you can use classic shell .
www.classicshell.net/ý
this works under both windows 7 and 8.
i dont know anything about either version from experience,, but something else to keep in mind, from what i've read windows 8 will be run better with less hardware.
although since you do gaming and that i wouldn't skimp on the hardware.
i've done quite a bit of research for the hardware side, as once Jaws stops support for windows XP, i'm gonna have to do something if i wanna continue to use the latest versions of jaws.
Since that is the most important thing to me, i'm probably gonna keep my older hardware and update to either 7 or 8.
also, windows8 support ends jan 10, 2023.
Windows 8.1 comes out really soon, so if you can hold off like 2 weeks, i'd do so.
One thing that 8.1 lets you do is boot directly to desktop, so you dont have to switch to apps view when booting.
hope this helps.
You can buy now, because the upgrade to 8.1 is gfree and many machines will have it anyway.
If you are using XP simply jump to 8 and you'll have the learning curve you'd have anyway with 7.
Jaws 15 works best with 8, and better with 8.1, but if you can only go 14, you'll want to get Windows7, because it will be compatible completely.
Dell will have machines shipping with 7, so Dell would be a good choice if you are sticking with 14 and want to have your system work fine.
I was going to say read D G's board, but you have, and your questions were different, due to the version of Jaws you'll be having.
Ask more. A layout of the pros and cons really doesn't make sense, because they are both easy to use, and learn. Good OS both.
For editing, get as much power is you can buy.
I personally feel windows 7 would be best for you.
Thanks all. I appreciate the suggestions. It's especially helpful to know about JAWS 14, as upgrading to 15 isn't currently an option. Also really helpful to know about classic shell too; something I had never heard of.
I do like the dell I currently have, but I'm a little leary about buying one online. Not only will shipping take a while, but I'm always nervous about the state of the shipment, and if it doesn't work, returning it isn't as easy as obtaining one at a store. That I live in Canada concerns me also, because I imagine there's customs to consider.
so if you like the del you currently have, why are you geting a new one?
Hey Kevven,
why do you suggest he stick with windows 7?
you didn't elaberate.
wayne, jaws14 works with 7 and 8.1 both. if he sticks with Jaws14, why would he stick with 7?
let's say two years from now he decides to upgrade his jaws. it'll be able to take advantage of the newer features of 8 and 8.1 plus
whatever else has come out since then.
since you said there would be the same learnign curve with 7 and 8.1 both, isn't that yet one more reason to go with 8 rather than 7?
Also, bare in mind there is currently not a version of magic that works with windows 8. If you use magic as a necessity this would likely be a deal breaker for now. I've heard smatterings to expect a version that would work with win 8 soon, but my gut tells me it'll be magic 13 rather than a 12 build.
I beg to differ about a learning curve beeing the same for win7 vs win8. here are my reasons and what I ran into when I ran a vm ware of win8, win7, the start menu has a search box, arrow past it and then you can do letter navigation or just use the arrows to find your all programs folder. win8, the all programs folder or apps now its called is on the command bar (:, a typical user would not know this know this and would be searching all day long for it. win7 search box, very useful, its smack dab on the start menu right when you press windows key. Win8 not so obvious, its searching for your apps is not always correct. Lastly my pet peeve about windows8, they will not let you send your apps to the desktop, its requiring you to pend it to the blasted start screen. Now, if win8.1 fixes this issue, I will ponder if I do an upgrade. I am running a bootcamp of windows so I have to be careful to what windows runs on my mac.
To be honest, I rarely use the desktop anyway on Windows XP. if I can avoid placing an icon on it, I will. Start menu on the other hand is my best friend.
Despite what I've read, I'm still a little confused about apps vs programs. I don't have a tablet so it's not something that ever concernned me.
as to why I'm replacing my computer, my dell is four years old, and while it still runs okay, it's getting slower, and I'm a little nervous about reformatting it without a really good tutorial. But the main reason is my wife's HP just died, and since I generally do more intensive stuff on a laptop than she does, I'm going to get a new one and give her my old.
You can place anything you want on the desktop in Windows 8 on a PC, anyway, so maybe this is a problem on a Mac with boot Camp? I can't see how?
The search is actually easier, because you simply start typing your request, or use the keystroke to bring up search.
JH, where Jaws 14 works with Windows 8, it doesn't work completely like Jaws 15 does. An example is these same apps on the start screen. They are more accessible if you have Jaws 15, so for the best experience Windows 7 with Jaws 14 would be complete.
When he upgrades to 15, if he does, he'll still have a complete experience.
If I wanted to by a Dell, I'd order directly. Even in Canada, you'd get service, and you'd get the best price.
You also have WalMart in Canada, but you'd do better directly possibly.
As for finding your programs that is simple as well, and if he got Windows 8, we'd tell him, or Microsoft has a Key shortcut page to help. Simply press control tab when in the start screen and your apps and programs are there by arrowing down. No problem.
I personally wouldn't change to the classic view. Once you learn 7 it is easier.
as i understand it, apps are versions of programs that are more optimized for touch on windows 8.1. some of these work with jaws and some dont. Jaws15 now has a tuch curcer, so you can move around these apps. Jaws is really working on making the apps view more friendly as time goes on (if you look at the public beta, you'll see this.)
Programs are what has been the standard for computers for ages. think of programs as the regular stuff you use on a desktop such as Office, Jaws, Sound Forge etc.
Thanks everyone. It's a lot to consider. This without even getting into actual spects; a whole other layer of fun. So in all honesty, how accessible IS Windows 8 right now with JAWS? All the retailers here seem to only sell Windows 8 machines, no matter the brand. I guess I COULD buy a copy of Windows 7 and downgrade, but I'd really need to be sure I didn't lose drivers. I know you have to find drivers a lot of the time manually. I do have a Windows 7 CD, but it came with my Dell, and so I imagine it will be incompatible with a Toshiba, Acer or HP? I don't want to get a Mac, but it sure does sound simpler sometimes.
well keep in mind that jaws15 does have keyboard shortcuts to move around with your tuch curcer. This means you dont have to use your finger on a screene if you dont want.
one more thing about programs vs. appps. apps i believe are made to be simpler to use then programs. also, they are smaller and take up less space.
i dont know that this space thing applies to windows 8.1apps , but know it does to mobile phones.
Wayne, can you help out here please?
Thanks.
People keep talking about tablet intigration, but honestly I'm not concernned about that since I don't have a windows tablet. Are apps even something I need to worry about then?
So far the only problem I've had with accessibility is with Mcafee. Windows 8 has been great for me, personally. Most sighted people I know hate it and most visually impaired people I know love it. Go figure.
That's a good sign; I don't use Macafee.:)
Hi,
Even running JAWS 14, you'll be fine running Windows 8. JAWS 15 will make some of the apps work more nicely with the introduction of the touch cursor, but it's not essential to have JAWS 15. As John says, the apps in Windows 8 are slimmed down versions of their traditional program cousins, so for instance, you'll get two version of IE 10.
The learning curve can seem more if you've gone from XP through Vista/7 to Windows 8. As far as you're concerned, you'll be moving to an OS that looks different to the one you have now, I'm not sure that the learning curve will be any steeper if you choose 7 or 8.
Unless your hardware or needing to use Magic constrains your choice, I'm not sure why you'd choose Windows 7.
Apps are something that could make things easier for you.. it would just depend on which ones you choose to use and how wel they work for you.
if you were to ask me about the accessibillety of apps, i couldn't gb give you an answer as I'm on windows XP still.
I believe that one day when microsoft unifies windows, that perhaps jaws might work as an app too. we'll have to see.
Yeah, I've heard Magic isn't supported yet. But I've also heard the Windows magnifier has gotten quite an improvement. I hear it does full screen now, and that there is a specific high contrast mode. So I might be able to do without Magic until it becomes compatible. I just wanted to be sure I could do all the things i do on XP with 8. I won't be getting a touch laptop. Though that might be really nice, I use a 32 inch HD tv as a screen, and I don't see them making that a touch screen any time soon.:) I don't mind learning a new OS, particularly if it works well. I just want to be sure it's accessible before I put down the money for it.
You see the apps work with Jaws 14, but not fully. In Windows 8.1 this will probably become more noticeable.
Let me give an example. When I have Jaws 14 running, I don't see all the options I can choose in the Weather App. I didn't even know they were there. I could get the temp and such things sure, but now I can see more options. I can use the mail client in Windows 8 with Jaws 15. With Jaws 14 it wasn't accessible. I really like it, and if I didn't have office or Outlook, I'd not worry about it if I had say a laptop I used as a machine when I wasn't home. Email is really nice and easy in the app.
I have a camera, and that is easier to deal with running 15 over 14. The app version of IE is easier, although you don't have to even deal with it, but you can.
Jaws 14 and Windows 7 are complete.
My personal thing and what if fully functional are different. I'd choose Windows 8.
Here is the reason I believe blind people like 8 over sighted persons. You aren't restricted by what you see on the screen. We've been using to keyboard navigation anyway, so navigating is just that.
A sighted person see a whole, or picture, and goes by that form.It is a way of thinking.
You can still get a Windows 7 machine, you've just have to look for one. If my machine came with 8, I'd not bother down grading even with Jaws 14, but you don't even have to bother.
Windows 7 will function just fine for years, so you've got no problem. All upgrades and such will be available.
Note, Windows 8 runs smoother with less power.
Windows 7 will function just fine until 2020.
windows 8.1 will function just fine until 2023.
those are the years that MS ends support for these versions and doesn't release sacurety updates anymore.
that's not to say you cant use these versions past those dates if you choose....
Thanks for everyone's help. I've now gotten a new Windows 8 laptop, and I'm surprised how much I like the new OS. It's very ... clean. I'm amazed at how intuitive Narrator has become. I was able to do a lot with it. I've installed NVDA and it too seems to work. Now one final question if I may. JAWS is still installed on my Wife's laptop. I'm actually able to upgrade to version 15 after all, but my key only allows me to install on one computer. My question is, can I uninstall and deauthorize JAWS from my dell, and install it on my windows 8 PC? (A Toshiba). If so, how do I go about deauthorizing it? Thanks again for all your help
upgrade that baby to 8.1. based on what i've read 8.1 is better than 8.
If you go to fsactivate.com you should be able to see how many activations you have left, and if you're running low, you can request a reset either there or by contacting FS some other way.
I contacted FS by phone and explained the situation. After giving me the 3rd degree, they did reset my keys. Sorry, yall, I'm rough on computers. lol If they're so freaken worried about unauthorized use, they should come up with a deauthorise feature.
There is a deauthorize feature.
Go to Start | All Programs | JAWS xx where xx is your version number then find Tools and then Remove Product Activation.
On Windows 8 or 8.1 go to Start Screen, type JAWS, then down arrow to Utilitites JAWS xx where xx is your version number, press enter. An explorer type window will open, find Remove Product Activation in there.
This puts your key back on the server.
I know people like to pick on the companies for authorization, so sorry for spoiling the fantasy by providing instructions lol but in actuality it's way easier than some software I've tried to help friends with, in particular an older piece of architectural software that had a CD, internet license and a dongle you had to use when setting it up first.
I was always under the impression that even Jaws basic allowed for 2 computers for an install?
I'd simply fill out the form, get the email and install Jaws on my new computer and leave it on the old one.
Explain ou just got a new computer, so need Jaws in the form.
I know for pro version allows up to 8.
Also. We helped you out, so now just like with Domestic, we want to know exactly what you got.
Give the brand, specs, color, wife complaints about the price! Come on! We wanna know.
Thanks guys. I called FS and was told I actually had one machine left over, so I'm not going to uninstall. It's nice to know that's an option however.
For $399, I got the following:
A Toshiba with an Intel chip, 2.4 GHZ, 4GB DDR ram, 500 GB hard drive (was more like 450), and a 1700MB video card, with 32MB of dedicated memory.I know I could have gotten better, but considering the price, it's actually better than my Dell. There was an HP for 699 Which had an I7 processor, and a bit higher of specs, including 6GB memory, but ... it's an HP, and though I almost went with it, I chickened out at the end. My wife didn't complain, but she would have let me get the 699 HP, too. Now I'm just trying to figure out some of the finer points of Windows 8. Overall, I like it, but, with the exception of a regular start menu. I can deal with the tiles, but when my installed programs don't end up in said start menu, even when I tell them to during install, it's annoying. I'm also not sure to about how to activate a program, rather than an app sometimes, such as with Internet Explorer. The regular one's on my quick-launch bar, but surely there's an easier way to navigate around? I DO like the comprehensive settings though.
I did upgrade to Windows 8.1, but I honestly haven't seen a difference.activ
You are back again asking for more help? JK.
I think you did well. The HP would have been over priced in my opinion for its specs, and this machine will serve your needs well.
Now, to your, um, questions.
When you tell programs to end up in the start they just get in the metro screen, so never mind that.
You’ve not noticed a difference in 8.1, because you’ve not used 8. Lol.
Okay, that was smartassed, but, I had to.
Now you have learned to stop telling four programs to end up in the start. They actually are on the start screen when you do this.
Skip that step.
Now as to opening a program instead of an app, you can put them 2 places, and find them in 3 or even on the task bar if you put them there.
Everyone has their likes, so the short lesson.
You can type say Microsoft Word in the start screen anyplace you like, and when the results show hit enter.
Next if you are on the start screen, and you get there by pressing the windows key, if you press control tap it moves you to the list. If you arrow you hear apps and if you keep going programs. Hit enter when you get to what you want.
Last when you find either an app or program, stop on it, and press the applications key and right or left arrow. You’ll hear options as to what you want to do. If you open the programs or file location, if you hit applications key again and arrow up and down you’ll find more things you can do with it.
In this fashion you customize it like you want it.
I like my main items on my desktop, but that is my like. I have the ones I need most on the task bar, and I like the apps in the start screen.
You can put anything anyplace. That
Enjoy. Keep the questions coming, I am sure others feel the same. Smile.
Thanks Forereal. I've heard a lot of that, but it was concise and helpful. I did actually use 8 for a little while before updating.:) I just need to declutter the start screen now and personize it, maybe get rid of that simplified and odd internet explorer app and replace it with the program.:)
The internet explorer is already there. You have 1 browser, but two ways to use it.
We talked about that on Domestics board.
Windows T takes you to your task bar. On the task bar you'll find the explorer you are use to using.
On the start screen, that one is the app.
If you are in the apps, program list, open it at its file location, and you can put it anyplace you like.
Windows T, didn't know that one. Thanks. Easier than going windows M, then tabbing.:) One question I do have though, I've found how to organize my start menu tiles into headings, which is useful. But is there a way to navigate by heading (group) rather than arrowing through everything? Also, is there a way of re-ordering the groups short of actually moving every single tile? In other words, can I exchange the first "group" on my start page with the third, or fourth?
Also windows 1 through the number of items on your task bar will start or go to that application. So Internet Explorer by default is the first one so windows 1 will do that, whatever you have second would be windows 2, etc.
The way to find out? do Windows t then hit home to go to the first one then arrow right until it wraps.
Oh and if the item shows as a submenu, you know that application is currently running, not just pinned to the task bar.
Leo, that's awesome. You'd think Freedom Scientific's tech support could have told me that. I'm all about giving credit where credit is due and not bashing a company because of some fantasy as you put it but good God, when I call the company's own tech support and they don't know that but rather tell me it can't be done, yeah, I'm gunna bash. lolWooo, that was one hell of a run-on sentence. Anyway, thanks for the info.
BG, sounds like you got a great little machine there. I'm glad you're enjoying it.
Thankd Goddess. Wow, Leo, that's really quite useful. Thanks.
No prob, and no hard feelings meant DomesticGoddess I have no idea why they might not have told you that. That icon has been there for a very long time, so. Maybe you just got a new employee who didn't know? Not making a excuse for anyone, just surprised.
Anyway glad now that is out there people can share it around so everyone knows where to do it.
Of course this going without saying, but you need an active Internet connection when you do this, so it will put the key back on the server for you.
The reason they may not have told her is you can arrange the task bar like you want.
By default IE is first, but you can move it. Not sticking up for them, but it is possible.
My task bar is arranged so that IE, firefox and such follow in aphabitical order.
BG, on the start screen you can arrange them, but you can't get to them with a key stroke.
The best way is to put them on your desktop. That way if you want to go to say, Internet Explorer, you typ I until you get there. The first letter of what you want gets you there.
I have a question however? I've not upgraded to 8.1 yet, but 8.1 has a start just like XP. Are you sure you upgraded?
You don't even have to see the start screen if you like?
I don't know how to make that happen yet, but I will next week.
When upgrading you need sighted assist, or so I think, but accept the terms. You've got no speech at all for that.
If you don't accept the terms, your system goes back to Windows 8.
Also, pressing Windows T brings you on the task bar, but if you continue to press Windows key T you move to the items on it, so don't necessarily have to arrow.
I've definitely upgraded. My Windows says 8.1 now. I don't mind the start menu as is, though I miss the ease of its pre-windows 8 form. I heard they brought that back, but I see no option for that. Perhaps I'm mearly looking in the wrong spot.
I can't say yet, but when I actually upgrade and find it, I'll post it for you and what it acts like.
Please do same if you learn first.
I forgot one other thing on the task bar. If you know what you've got on it, hitting the first letter of that item takes you to it.
Example I press Windows T, and I want Outlook. I just press O and I'm on it.
Now, it your item is open, again using Outlook, to the en box, you'll need an I.
That is not always the case, because you can have Skype open, but still press S.
Thanks
No, Wayne, I was talking about the deactivation of JFW. lol It's all good.
i'll just point you guys to a link which wil help you out hopefully.
if there are better instructions that you guys can provide with jaws or another screene reader, feel free to put them here for others...
Hands-On with Windows 8.1 | Windows 8 content from Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows